in CamRock (Moderator: TheMayor1)

That was the filter? ;-)

I thought the wind blew it onto the trail. ; )

Just the temporary branch I found laying in the woods. Meant to keep a 10 year old from getting on the trail by accident. If you are riding a 29er and can't read a sign and plow onto trail with major work done to it and get in over your head I can't help you :

As Dewayne said. I also should have thought to get the filter done on the Trail Day. With the new higher level features added it should have been done before the trails were opened that day.

I dunno, I almost crash on that first jump every time! It's kind of fun on my spindly lightweight XC bike!

That's cause it's only half a jump, there's no landing.  I'm not sure how that's supposed to ride but I almost ate sh t on it the one time I actually hit it with some speed too.  A second roller down farther could serve as a landing and would keep it roll-able.  That whole line kind of confuses me cause it's like it wants to be a dh line with features as such, but there like half features that the line is way to fast for the smallness of them.

I see the filter and marking topic on the link below.

http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/example-filters-signage-advanced-trails-skill-areas-775403.html

I still promote the low drop idea if it can be fit in and built reasonably. Dewayne gave a better description as to why and Cam Rock has log piles. If done right we gain a feature that will spoon feed learning a fun and important skill.

We already have log piles at our riding sites, and I'm still in the dark regarding how log piles don't impede flow. Flow is when 1 g force each sideways and down has you riding 45 degrees over, when more than 1 g force on your rear axle lets you accelerate without pedaling, for sure when you're flying and when a transition makes you faster or lighter instead of rattles your teeth.

In addition to the filter, we need some signage at the trail head kiosk indicating where the trail starts.  I came across riders going the wrong way down the return trail, as that is the first trail visible from the Kiosk. Maybe a single wrong way sign would suffice.

In addition to the filter, we need some signage at the trail head kiosk indicating where the trail starts.  I came across riders going the wrong way down the return trail, as that is the first trail visible from the Kiosk. Maybe a single wrong way sign would suffice.

Good point Tim. We need to get a sign there. Never thought of that before. Hard to think like a first-timer in the parking lot.

That's cause it's only half a jump, there's no landing.  I'm not sure how that's supposed to ride but I almost ate sh t on it the one time I actually hit it with some speed too.  A second roller down farther could serve as a landing and would keep it roll-able.  That whole line kind of confuses me cause it's like it wants to be a dh line with features as such, but there like half features that the line is way to fast for the smallness of them.

It's not a jump course and doesn't need a landing.  The trail is the landing on this XC trail.  Sure, the roller needs more dirt; we quarried what we could find but need to bring more in unless we want to dig a big hole, which I rarely advocate.  The roller is just too short to be ridden at speed. 

Regardless, the primary purpose of the roller is erosion control, i.e. to get any water off the trail at that point.  The same thing goes for the wooden backed one after it.  It just so happens that they work as features but aren't features.

D

Can someone make some drawings to educate me on these terms? Roller? Jump? Drop? I need a secret decoder ring. Maybe something for the new beginner section.

I need a secret decoder ring.

Quote of the day. I love it

And I totally get your point. Beginner section would be a perfect place for info like this. Even if a lot of us that would reference it would be well beyond a beginner rider. I am still getting schooled on the finer points of TTF lingo. And I think I have been on a couple miles of trail in my day

Can someone make some drawings to educate me on these terms? Roller? Jump? Drop? I need a secret decoder ring. Maybe something for the new beginner section.

Hope this helps!

[attachment deleted by admin]

Thanks for the drawing, Nick! Based on that, I'd call all the features on the advanced downhill either jumps or drops. No rollers there, with the exception of the very first dip, maybe.

I would consider that first one a jump take off based on how it's shaped and rides for sure.  If that first one is to be a roller it needs the top cut off of it.  The second one is a drop.  There are three rollers down toward the bottom.

I gotcha on the erosion control though Dewayne, it makes sense now to me.  That first one tot rides as a jump though unless I jam on brakes before it.  What do you think about putting another bigger roller in like eight to ten feet down or so?  I don't know if that would be encroaching upon the drop to much?  Right now there is a like dug down rut that my front tire lands in making the landing even worse for it.

That first one tot rides as a jump though unless I jam on brakes before it.  What do you think about putting another bigger roller in like eight to ten feet down or so?  I don't know if that would be encroaching upon the drop to much?  Right now there is a like dug down rut that my front tire lands in making the landing even worse for it.

I agree Tim that it needs a little tweaking, but I am still not getting at how this would work for most riders. This is a steep downhill and that is why erosion issues are an issue here. Frankly without work this trail is too steep to be sustainable. I think a little tweaking on the run into the roller can make it smooth and the take off more of a jump for those at speed. I think a second "landing" roller would not work well. Some people will have enough speed to get air off the first roller/jump, and then if they don't have enough speed to gap it, will land into the second one. With all of this happening on a steep downhill, with a steep sideslope, I don't see this working well for most riders.
I think making this run a nice series of erosion control jumps going down the hill would be a lot of fun. We sustain the trail and make it more fun at the same time. Lets start there and we can look at tweaking things later.

The crew will be setting a date to fix the issues, we have also decided on the best filter. I will keep you posted.

That sounds good Chuck.  That's true most who ride it aren't gonna be gapping it if there is a landing and landing front wheel down into a roller is not fun for anyone.

Okay, I give up being a professional trail builder with 15 years experience building trail who owned a successful trail building business that was a member of the Professional Trail Builders Association.  Apparently, all it takes to build trail is to ride a mountain bike for a couple of years.

The steeper the trail is, the steeper the back side of the roller, which is what you're seeing in this case.  I have already stated it needed more dirt, which we did not have.  Once more, the front side of the roller should be longer for it to be ridden smoothly.  It doesn't need ANY work for it to fulfill its primary purpose, i.e. to shed water. Furthermore, we would have filled the little rut after it if we had the dirt.  Some claim it's more like a full-on downhill trail but bi...complain about a little rut catching a tire.   : 

The second erosion control device is a front side roller with a log back, which creates a drop if one is going fast enough.  Technically, a drop is something that, in order to be ridden successfully, requires one or both tires to be off the ground at the same time.  My first statement of this paragraph negates this last statement.  Here's an example: a picnic table isn't necessarily a drop; the wheel base of a mountain bike allows one tire to be on the table and the other on the ground, though I don't recommend riding it this way.  If you ride it with some velocity, you can "huck" it or wheelie drop it.  That still doesn't make it a drop.

Josh, please include me in any TTF workdays so I can continue the work we started and help make it the way it should be.

D